Shani occupies 8th-from-Chandra
"To keep company with those whom they do not like
and to be separated from those whom they like
as also to deal with the wicked
is the agony which people with long life have to suffer."
~~ Mahabharata, Vana Parva , 193.18
OM sham shanaishcharaye namah
Sauri * Sauron
Shanicarya * Sanisvaraya
Ayur-daya * Randhra-bhava
Saturn * Kevan
Saturan * Sauran * Shamash
Kronos * Kaivan * Khima
Anu * Ninurta * El * Eli
// The Old Sun //
the eighth house
mors * renatus
Old trauma. Sigh.
glacially slow pace of change afflicts attempts at Revival * Rejuvenation * Recycling * Renovation * Rebirth
[survives dramatic political threats] [continues rigidly ceremonial initiation systems] [must resist revolutionary entitlements] [must endure pressure from hidden power games][must maintain romantic secrecy]
[lawfully required to keep diplomatic secrets] [resistance to change in contractual relationships] [imposes legal equity in undisclosed arrangements]
Shani-Makara-Draco * bones, rules, government, institutions
resistance to hidden forces + obligation to lawfully keep secrets
LEARNING PATHYWAY of samparaya Shani-8 may involve necessary dealings with
Shani = resistance to hidden forces + obligation to lawfully keep secrets
Shani the Taskmaster functions best in rashi of: Makara, Kumbha, and Thula
Psychologically, one may seem stuck in the past, due to Shani's staunch resistance toward accepting opportunities for new identity, renewal, renovation, and rebirth. The Old Order [Shani] is trying to remain unchanged [Shani] but conditions of randhrabhava-8 are dictated by Mangala and those conditions vigorously promote recycling and renewal.
When He teaches in classroom-8, Professor Shani detests any sort of change. He particularly dislikes - indeed, fears - structural change, such as a change of government or a change in core relationships such as marriage or parenting.
Structural Shani-8 also is intimidated by financial change, emotional change, psychological change, change of routine, change of residence, change of surroundings, marital change, social change, physical change, or any other variety of change.
No matter how bitter the circumstances, Shani wishes to preserve the existing rules rather than be forced to change the rules by His enemy Mangala, owner of bhava-8.
Thus durokaraka Shani-8 may doggedly remain in hostile environments or dangerous relationships for a long time. He may insist on the viability of an unrewarding job, an unsatisfying marriage, or an abusive homelife. He finds survival methods, such as denial of initiatives or withholding of permission, which allow Him to cling to a terrible situation rather than create a new approach. Shani's mortal enemy Surya is creative and independent-minded, but not Shani. Professor Shani has one tool, which is resistance. And He uses that single tool obstinately, refusing to change or grow.
Shani-8 folks tend to get stuck in trauma-patterns. May have polarizing catalysis moving on. From a Jyotisha perspective, Shani-8 creates a type of PTSD where the person continually repeats [Shani] the catastrophic scenes, combing over the details of past terror events in hope of discovering that really nothing has changed, it's all the same as it ever was. Shani-8 folk generally have difficulty moving forward from emotional, psychological, physical, and even financial trauma.
Marital in-laws are intractable, contribute little to the marital coffers, and are often a burden of responsibility upon the native.
The result is often internal tension as one seals the past into a hard shell and demands that people, places, and ideas remain fixed at some past moment within one's own world even while the external environment is moving gleefully into new futures.
Shani in the awkward shad-ashtaka 6/8 angle relative to indriya-lagna suggests health challenges related to rigidity, scarring, and seizures, according to Shani's rashi. However, whatever the health situation, the native lives a long life indeed.
Matters of orderly governance, rule of law, tradition, elitism, class systems, institutionalization, social conformity, materialism, resistance to change, and respect for
Time may be experienced as contradictory to expectations, and socially difficult to manage.
The challenge of Professor Shani teaching in classroom-8 = skill to manage potentially catastrophic changes in times of shock and upheaval, while preserving a lawful [Shani] environment.
Favorable Conditions for Professor Shani teaching in classroom-8
Even when uttama or in svakshetra, Shani -8 typically faces adversarial, self-defensive, often overwhelmed conditions that ultimately test Shani's natural stamina and endurance beyond the limits of human life.
Drishti shows Survival-narrative impacted areas
Effortful experiences due to Lack of secrecy credibility (anti-Surya)
Professor Shani teaching in classroom-8 represents resistance to change which necessitates the self-preservation effort that is required to achieve a consistent and credible mysterious, hidden, rebirthing identity.
Shani in dusthamsha * Mangala the irresistible force hosts Shani the immovable object
Of the three dusthamsha 6-8-12, Shani is more naturally comfortable in bhava-6 and bhava-12. Randhra bhava-8 is the most intractable and defensive location for Professor Shani. His teachings in this location must respond to the attacking energy of Mangala. Shani is scared of sudden attack. Yet, his educational lectures continue! The topic of the lectures is always survival.
Akashic memory patterning of Occult and Hidden Treasuries, Spousal Assets, In-Laws (family of the partner) Disaster and Unexpected Transformation
Parashari drishti to domains: 10, 2, and 5.
All forecasts improve with planetary support from Mangala.
Conditions of Death
Dematerialization of the corporeal coagulations facilitated by agency of the rashi governing bhava-8, drishti to bhava-8, and by karaka Shani:
Longevity and Conditions
The general rule = Shani in 8 denotes a long life. Generally, Shani imposes considerable Resistance to the movement of the Wheel of Death and Rebirth and this truth often produces a greater longevity.
Catastrophe Anxiety. Fear and worry regarding the sudden emergence of unknown forces.
Must work to earn validation of the transformation. Works to be fully approved, in compliance, and judged perfect under the rule of statutory law . Yet survival fears based in [akashic memory] enforce the mandate to perform this work over and over again, until the ignorance is transformed into wisdom.
"Not reborn enough" syndrome.
Habits of regeneration and rehabilitation are resistant to movement. the native who wishes to change one's identity, increase one's knowledge of mysterious truths, or experience rejuvenating practices such as surgeries and tantrik healing, will find such a project to be slow-going and demanding much time.
Try as one might to change the package of attributes, one's fear of the unknown may persist.
Shani in either svabhava of Mangala, 1 or 8, is undeniably difficult. the native resists birth (1) or rebirth (8) which takes the joy of movement out of the life. However, shani in 8 lacks the kendra-dignity of Shani in 1.
Shani in 8 tends toward a lingering bitterness and resistance to that great engine of forward movement, forgiveness.
These natives often seem to be stuck in the past, clinging to old grievances or continuing to be defined by old trauma . They inherit a heavy legacy of responsibility and scarce resources, which causes a fear of change-for-the-worse.
comfortable and pleasing results
Similar to Shani in 7, Shani in 8 often indicates resistance to divorce. One may undertake supplemental"secret" relationships if Shukra or Mangala occupy or casts drishti upon bhava-8. However, Marriage is generally fixed because the native believes that divorce has bad consequences. Few emergencies in this life.
Exceptions to the typical difficulties:
Shani-Vṛścika in 8 may become a highly capable emergency manager, presuming that Mangala is well disposed. Other graha in 8 can facilitate transformation and reduce Shani's typical resistance considerably.
Shani in bhava-8 gives significant resistance to the deepest levels of self-destruction and rebirth, which results in greater longevity for the current incarnation.
Better results should be predicted if Shani occupies Tula, Makara-Draco, or Kumbha.
he attitude toward catastrophic change and secret, unpredictable upheavals is fundamentally stubborn, persistent, conservative and slow.
Akashic memory patterning = handling Other People's Resources (8) . Requires a steady acceptance of hidden and mysterious financial transactions. Professor Shani teaching in classroom-8 = rather obliged to participate in schemes which may involve bribery and money-laundering.
In-laws of the first marriage may be impoverished, ignorant, or their circumstances are much constrained by fear due to a strict and unforgiving regime. The in-laws may hail from a proletarian background, and may be characterized by a fear of punishment for nonconformism via religious, political, or family culture laws.
[nīcha] Shani in bhava-8 delivers the Akashic memory patterning of an in-law group that is overly conventionalized, stiff, rigid, frozen, intractable, or dysfunctionally change-resistant
The first spouse may contribute much less wealth into the coffers of the joint assets of marriage than the native may contribute.
= an emergency-management functionary who works the system of secret information, intuitive healing, and catastrophic change. This person must apply sustained effort with limited resources [Shani]oward the maintenance of systems of emergency response to catastrophic events, transformative healings under forced circumstances, secret initiations, management of hidden information, and the mystery schools.
Some difficulties or maturation required before obtaining leadership prestige (10) and speculative luck/personal charisma (5) while also damaging wealth (2).
Imposes a heavy responsibility for using one's tantric awareness (magic, worldview shifts, psychic healing) and deployment of confidential information, in this life (8).
the native bears a heavy burden of secret knowledge, and if Shani is strong one becomes a governing agent in times of catastrophic change .
Professor Shani teaching in classroom-8 = very slow movements of the cycle of self-destructive and rebirth (= long life)
core areas of initial lack of understanding + required repetition
Shani narrative in bhava- 8
must keep secrets
Resistance to identity-change, fear of the Conditions of dematerialization produces extended longevity
Shani occupie sthe awkward shad-ashtaka 6/8 angle from indriya-lagna, providing lifelong resistance to renewal
obligation to resist transformative healing
heavy duties toward in-laws
rigidly structured, lawful healing methods
pre-incarnationally planned duty limits the availability of sudden openings.
resistance to healing after severe trauma, yet long life
rigid hidden apertures; seizure of internal reproductive organs
Professor Shani's classroom-8 features the experience of matching the fear of the unknown, of death conditions, fear of the mate's family , fear of the mate's treasuries, fear of transformation, fear of secrets, fear of disasters, fear of new identity.;
Shani's instruction = "stop matching that which is not lawful to you" (stop matching the fears of others) and proceed with care.
Shani-8 indicates resilience and resistance to danger.
professor Shani teaches about survival, rigidity, structure, statutory law, and fear of punishment.
Shani in randhrasthana may impose a fearful, life-threatening (Shani, survival) script of punishment and restriction which may seem to augur an early extinction. Yet while the script repeats this awful threat, Professor Shani also teaches endurance. The native maintains a chronic state of change-resistance for many many years.
Agents of bhava-8 = the spouse's family and its values, the mate's wealth and one's own secret relationships, occult knowledge and healing powers of transformative response to crisis that allow regeneration and rebirth. The bhava-8 agents say:
You follow the rules, or else we (the mate's family, the occult powers, the hidden forces of upheaval) will eject you from the in-law family, and freeze your access to healing regeneration so that you live a long time being unable to heal or change.
Professor Shani teaching in classroom-8 narrative of the threat of disaster trauma and inability to regenerate is further embroidered with contributing voices from Professor Shani's rashi, incoming drishti to bhava-8, Shani's angle from Chandra, Shani's placement in navamsha, planetary tenants in those bhava ruled by Shani, etc.
Shani-8 supports socially-approved, rigidly dutiful danger-containment roles such as surgeon, tantriki, concealer, mask-maker, emergency regulator.
Repeating Homework Assignments =
Preincarnationally planned Pressure
Shani-8 is challenged to repeat many"practice" iterations while learning the art of discovering hidden structures . The lifetime is devoted to the slow and patient eradication of the at-birth deficiency regarding ability to release the old identity , recover hidden treasures, assets of the spouse, behavior of the in-laws, sudden or catastrophic change, trauma, surgery, mysteries, reconstruction and rebirth.
Shani enemy of Mangala = in 8 = good for longevity because Shani resists rebirth.
Four areas of special difficulty caused by karmic necessity to correct a deficiency of transformative energy.
One is never free of anxiety, due to fear of sudden changes .
Core Practice Environments which require repetitive drill and careful study :
Shani in Ayurbhava
Intimidated Shani occupies a hostile territory ruled by Mangala-Ketu
One graha who is naturally unwelcome in bhava-8 is the natural adversary of both Ketu and Mangala: the lord of anti-change Shani. The portfolio of Shanaiscarya includes all activities of resistance to change, such as retardation, restriction, containment, fixation, laws, orderly processes and protocols, caution, conservation, and the finality of death.
There is of course nothing final about physical dematerialization, which is simply a phase of transformation of identity as the native 's consciousness disconnects from the physical body and reattaches itself to a more active affiliation with the astral body (soul). The turning of the cycle of life and death is endless.
When Shani occupies bhava-8 there is great resistance to death, a fear of the turning of the cycle. One may be is prevented from getting out of bondage of attachment to the physical body for an extended period of time. Shani in bhava-8 lengthens the physical lifetime.
Typical cause of physical dematerialization is // old age //
Shani in Ayurbhava
Social judgment = fear of threats to order
Shani = karakatva for society
Social judgment arises from what Memories Dreams Reflections 1875-1961 Carl Jung called the collective unconscious.
Kuja the warrior and Surya the king represent the individual whereas Shani represents society, the law, and the group.
Shani in Ayur (age) bhava
Resistance to Death produces Longevity
When evaluating a nativity with Shani in bhava-8, it may be tempting to happily proclaim "ah, here is Shani in Mrityusthana, you will have a long life!" as if that were unquestionably a great benefit.
Often, long life via Shani-8 = a heavy burden characterized by dry, cold, heavy experience in a scarce-resources environment.
Resistance to childbirth, fear of new life
Women with Shani in bhava-8 may have a terror of childbirth with its pain, transformation, and emergence of new life. A woman will never be the same after childbirth.
She may experience extreme frustration in this situation, unable to acknowledge her own resistance, because what she perceives in her own fear-restricted consciousness is a desire to conform to social expectations as the best route toward achieving the highest levels of social safety and material security.
Shanideva Bhagavan resides in Ayurbhava
one prefers the company of the elderly and those with established social position, not due to snobbery, but because these companions pose no threat to Shani's carefully constructed defensive walls against sudden and unmanageable change.
Zacaranda Trees blooming in beautiful Zambia, Africa
Effects of Professor Shani teaching in classroom-8
Overall, papagraha residing in dushthamsha has some beneficial implications.
Shani/8 indicates a long lifespan and duties with surgery or medical emergencies. Often suffers catastrophic change requiring medical intervention.
the native is blocked from access to magic or deep therapeutic change of any kind. Stores emotional pain in the physical body, and is forced therefore to deal with much physical trauma.
Shani-8 constrains and limits the natural powers of physical rejuvenation; and as a results, one often lives longer than average but also generally from birth looks older than they are.
Duty-oriented response to trauma is limited to caretaking and structural support;. V cannot explore the damage thus healing powers are restrained. There are benefits to restricting the occult implications and ego-destructive capabilities of the crisis-and-rebirth conditions Typically, associated with randhrasthana-8.
the native is pragmatic in managing the Conditions of dematerialization, does not fear death, and usually offers technical service in some transformative environment such as a healing center without being personally healed.
If in business will make much profit for others without gaining themselves. No doubt they are somewhat nervous about the power of magic due to negative experiences in parallel lives . Permission to heal others but not oneself.
Preincarnationally planned polarizing catalysis produces trouble-spots include reduced spousal contribution to the joint assets of marriage and a negative or non-helpful experience of the partner's family (in-laws) who will hail from a lower social class than the native .
Enjoyment of social prestige (10), wealth (2) and children/charm/amusements/speculation (5) will be limited. Even if other planets give high intelligence, the native is tied to a practical, positivistic worldview which means very little spontaneous miracle in this life.
Benefits include a strong work ethic and willingness to take the lion's share of responsibility in partnerships. Oppresses the joint assets of partnership.
Spouse contributes relatively little to the joint wealth. If good wealth yogas exist the native may build his own wealth the old-fashioned way, by hard work, and lots of it. Saturn eliminates the short-cuts to wealth but He rewards solid labor. Reduces permission for transformative change in this life; will be a hard worker but not willing to accept magical change.
Often comfortable results due to the benefits of resisting chaning, which include longevity. Yet Shani oppresses the tantrik self-re-invention instincts when He occupies Kuja's house.
Pragmatic Shani understands the material reality of emergencies and quick turnings of the cycle of birth and death. His job, as He sees it, is to Avoid danger. The outcome is usually increased longevity (barring deadly drishti).
A conservative, risk-averse person who does not dabble in secrets and will most likely deny the existence of occult knowledge. A materialist with no interest in magic. Often traumatized by sudden, forced changes in early childhood. Cannot tolerate disruptive change.
Yet, one must process the [akashic memory patterning] of Responsibility [Shani] for managing cycles of catastrophic upheaval. The responsibility is met by diligent focus on material consequences, denial of superstition, and direct confrontation with fear.
May participate in social (esp. religious) programming that suppresses mystical experience. A hard worker, but due to one's profound fear [Shani] of deep change, transformation of consciousness is denied.
Gnati-karaka in bhava-8 = similar to Shani in bhava-8
Death in Old age.
Prominent exception = when randhra bhava receives drishti of of a highly empowered Kuja - in which case death is sudden and often when relatively young, one resists [Shani] the invasion [Kuja] of enemy forces [Kuja] due to sharp weapon such as hypodermic needle, knife, sword, even a laser beam.
Death in circumstances of Anonymity , poverty, sterility, and dryness , or through incompetence or mismanagement caused by the fear or intimidation of the attending physician.
Exceptionally long life if Shani has strength.
Shani in bhava-8 or Shani drishti to randhra bhava may damage or delay your inheritance. Limitation or denial of financial settlement from divorce.
Spouse's contribution to the joint assets of marriage is cramped and spouse's family are either poor or ignorant (depending on disposition of Shani).
Spouse's family (in-laws) may be bound to conformist thinking, scarcity thinking, victim-minded, identified with working or service class oppression, or otherwise in bondage to cramped or negative expectations.
QUOTATION Das commentary
"... puts a powerful lid on past auspicious influences, forcing you to meet the everyday trials of life with no help from past karma.
Under such rigorous conditions you become bewildered , having been abandoned by relations, abused and tormented through no apparent fault of your own, and put to physical hardships which require great stamina to bear.
In some cases, finding your helplessness acute, you begin to seek pleasure through dissipation , though under favorable circumstances you may begin pursuing an arduous spiritual path which, though it may not eliminate sorrow from your life, may reveal the deeper meaning that life and destiny awaits you after your period of trial .
Long life is indicated.
You may live in a foreign land where being caught as a thief is punished.
Much sorrow... friends avoid you.
Death in a foreign place due to heart trouble, cough, cholera etc. You are sober but bold and fearless.
Children are cunning. ... contact with low class persons. Financial difficulties due to several restrictions.
Unhappy dreams and grieved decease of father .
... keeps you alert till the last breath: gets premonitions, especially if 4th or 5th house is occupied by malefics. A benefic in these houses will keep you unconscious in your last moments.
Fortune after 36. You are denied the company of virtuous and live with the lower persons.
Separation from your own people.
Being crooked, no body can cheat you. You suffer great loss of wealth; sudden separation from own people; always perverse minded; very clever; scared of disease; ill-reputed.
Lazy, glutton, miserly, kind and timid.
Few children and weak sighted."
Traffic of thoughts
Q: I'm entering the mahadasha of Shani in bhava-8 Makara. What should I expect?
Sober Shani becomes a strong graha in svakshetra * His own field of action.
Yet Shanaicarya experiences some unique stress when He resides in the always-pushing, always-urging svabhava of Mangala.
When Professor Shani teaches in the classroom of apertures and sphincters, the randhra-bhava, He specializes in the topics of transformation, recycling, and the turning of the wheel of birth and death.
Life is eternal. The opposite of birth is death; the opposite of death is birth.
Shani resists movement.
Shani imposes Resistance Energy rooted in Fear, against the turning of the wheel. Therefore, when Shani occupies bhava-8, His environment is constantly imposing conditions of transformative change, new identities, and unexpected upheavals. Yet Shani must resist these movements. Shani-8 endures change after change after change in the external conditions Yet, he staunchly refuses to adapt the identity to the birth-and-death cycles of nature. He remains Fixed. Thus Shani-8 is a marker for Long Life.
Professor Shani teaching in classroom-8 must Resist Sudden Change in matters of recycling, self-re-invention, surgical intervention and improvement, transformation, and sudden, rapid movements in the wild. Bhava-8 signifies the tantrick hunter.
Shani gets very stuck, and stays stuck.
In Makara rashi, Shani's main rationale is maintenance of Public Dignity. Reputation and protocol are extremely importance to karmakaraka Shani, and Shani will staunchly resist any threat to conventional appearances or actually any suggestion that life is moving forward through a series of transformations caused by age, environment, or other natural motivators of change.
Shani wants to maintain conditions the way a skeleton wants to support the flesh -- He feels that without reliable, rigid, rule-driven and chain-of-command logic structure, things will collapse into deadly chaos. This is simply Shani's reasoning, the voice that sounds in one's head when Shani becomes a planetary timelord. Shani says "resist change - the consequences of change are death!"
of course rationally, we know that the consequence of NOT changing is death! So, from a balanced lifestyle point of view, having a strong Agent of Resistance Shani in the house which governs Emergencies and Sudden, Forced Changes = a bit dysfunctional.
Esoteric Astrology 1925-2005 Jyotishavidya Bepin Behari commentary upon Shani in Maraka in bhava-8:
"Marriage may be frustrating, with the spouse suffering from some physical incapacity. Everyday life may be so complex that you have no time of your own. With all avenues of creativity blocked, you feel extremely stifled."
To encourage the best results from Shani Mahadasha, one suggestion would be to find ways of appeasing Shani.
Professor Shani is responsible for maintaining a narrative of human survival fear, which is broadcast constantly from the Reptile Brain. The first step is to become aware of the fear-triggering signals and the second step is to adjust one's response to the fear-triggering signals.
Shani rewards patience, maturity, sobriety, and neutrality. He is the master of non-reactivity and lawful abidance. Therefore, Shani bhukti are successful when one approaches the perceived dangers (8 danger) of looming change by soberly *managing* change in an intentionally adult and dignified manner. Yet Shani is enduring. Best results can be expected when one remains committed (Shani rewards commitment) to making clearly needed changes, albeit slowly.
Management Challenge * Perceived Threat to Life As It Is
When the changes are perceived as sudden, unlawful, or irregular, Shani produces a fierce resistance dedicated to survival of what is, and denial of what could be. He generally defaults to a rather unsophisticated blocking behavior, unilaterally resisting change. However, the conscious human can manage Shani's concerns the way a business manager would manage timid, change-resistant employees: slowly, honoring the fear, developing vocabulary to describe and contain the perceived threat, but ultimately pushing ahead.
Reducing the global perspective * survival focus on maintenance of existing order
Shani is dutifully focused upon maintaining the status quo. For Mithuna lagna, Stuck-in-Time Shani activates bhava-8 and also bhava-9. Shani in randhrabhava also tends to drain (12th-from) the globalizing and wisdom-expanding effects of dharma bhava, by reducing the amount of available energy for expansion and focusing the scarce resources (Shani scarcity) upon preservation of the status quo.
Naturally if there are strong graha in bhava-9, the inspiration of philosophy can still prosper. However, Typically Shani-8 has a lead-weight effect of pulling the vitality of bhava-9 into Shani's ongoing resistance program, leaving less available resource for expansion of perspective (9). Shani-8 is often so concerned with the material level of social structurey on Earth that more abstract, structured awareness the larger cosmic network (Kumbha, bhava-9) goes largely undeveloped.
His drishti into bhava-10 indicates a truly hand-working professional who is often more personally comfortable in a rank-and-file position but who demands lawful leadership. His drishti into bhava-2 indicates straitened circumstances in the family of origin, and a lineage that values work efforts. His drishti to bhava-5 indicates that children, gaming, and amusements are intended to require persistent effort. The amount of effort generally exceeds the amount of enjoyment, and children may function more as a mechanism for social legitimation rather than as a source of joy. Enjoyments are limited by Shani's social-ordering 10th drishti to 5.
Calming Shani's survival fears and committing to make steady, managed, dignified changes, will help the primarily impacted areas: rigid response to changed life conditions (8) resistance to accepting leadership roles so that one can feel oppressed in the worker role yet unable to change the authority structure (10) "there is not enough" narratives of scarcity and materialism in the family lineage values-fulfillment , banking, and food (5) demands and duties in relation to children, amusements, and speculative thought tend to dull the creative intelligence and emphasize a plodding, enduring heaviness in matters that are normally joyful and fun.
charcoal - after being burned, can be burned again
updated:22 September 2021
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Therefore, when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light;
but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness."
~~ Gospel of Luke 11:34-35