| tadyatha om gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
of Birth Time
"Correcting" justification of adjustments to the reported birth time
Unfortunately due to time constraints I'm unable to offer rectifications, and I don't know personally of any astrologer offering reliable rectifications.
However you might be able to find a listed professional Jyotishi who currently offers rectifications by contacting either
the British Jyotisha association http://www.bava.org/
or alternatively the American Jyotisha association. https://acvaonline.org/
These professional groups should have vetted lists of certified practitioners, and possibly someone might be available for a rectification project.
|Constructing a Jyotisha chart:|
| Rectification |
General rules of thumb:
About speculative birth times:
Caution must be observed when deploying a speculative birth time! Predictions based upon Vimshottari Dasha require accurate birth time
A case can be carefully built for using a speculative birth time by proving multiple correspondences between expected planetary results and known events in the native 's life. This proving process is easier to apply to the chronological biography of a public figure whose adult life is chronicled in detail.
Jyotisha samayavidya offers a complex analytical process which is handled differently by various Jyotishi. Generally, Jyotisha rectification process has two stages:
It is nearly always true that the actual moment of the infant's first breath (the point in time which creates the radical lagna of the kundali) is earlier than the remembered time, and frequently a rectification even from an institutional birth certificate needs to be moved a bit earlier. Almost never later.
Home birth times tend to be recorded more accurately if there is someone present who is not involved in the birth (usually a male). Otherwise home birth times are often reported by the mother or attending women who are more concerned with the mother-child health than with recording the birth time. Understandable naturally but times recorded as "dawn" or "near midnight" are difficult, perhaps impossible, to use without careful rectification.
Mother's memory of specific time of birth is as a rule is unreliable; but a general time such as "near 2am" is probably not a fiction.
Childbirth can be very stressful and mother's memories formed in that time of trauma are often unrealistic. (However every dark cloud has a silver lining. As one benefit of the above mother-daughter transaction, where the mother was incensed that her daughter did not trust mom's memory, I could look for a time consistent with mental health issues or delusion of the mother...)
|When no birth time is available:|| |
I personally do not try to create a birth time for the native who has absolutely no record of their time of birth.
Rather, I do what Jyotishi have done in India for millennia, which is to read the radix chart from the Chandra Lagna .
A very detailed logical analysis of the life events can indeed be undertaken by a careful and conscientious Jyotishi who has the time and inclination to perform a rectification for a person who has no birth time but a presumably accurate birth date. (Before my practice became so busy, I used to be able to do these occasionally, but I no longer 'have the time' as the earthlings say!)
If even the date of birth is not known, psychic methods may be required to locate the date, and then the time.
Also, the map of the palm may offer an excellent guide to rectification of the nativity since the palm-map typically does match the Jyotisha nativity in all particulars.
| Exception: |
accurate rectification for public figures when no birth time is available
In the case of well-known public figures whose biographical details are a matter of public record, a birth time can be accurately deduced from components such as
other pieces of public biographical information which can be matched one by one until a complete profile is established.
As opposed to a common citizen, the aura of a public figure has become brightly visible to their surrounding environment and the intensity of their Jyotisha graha is usually quite dramatic.
For a highly recognized public figure the atmakaraka is nearly always in the navamsha lagna or navamsha 10th, and frequently the atmakaraka is also in the dazamamza-10 1st or 10th. Rarely, if the atmakaraka is not in kendra of D-9 or D-10, some uttama-graha must be in kendra 1 or 10.
However the typical situation for a public figure = atmakaraka in D-9 bhava-1 or bhava-10, while the rashi signifying the professional area = 10th navamsha (e.g., writing Mithunaya, medicine Kanya, governance Makara). Lord of 10th navamsha should be also strong in D-1.
Furthermore the Karakamsha in radix is nearly always an obvious expression of a notable public career in a specialized skill. For example for elite politicians, the karakamsha can be predicted = either bhava 1, 5, 9 or 10; for the uber-earner billionaires Rahu is nearly always in 11 and the karakamsha of radix predictably in 2, 5, 9, or 11. Highly recognized writers typically have Rahu in 3 or 5, and the karakamsha is frequently 3-publishing (screenwriters, 5). However for those whose fame is attributed to winning awards like the Nobel Prize or the Pulitzer Prize, Rahu falls in 11 (awards for achievement).
Thus for public figures only - this will not work for just-folks like you and me! - a rectification to the minute can reasonably be accomplished by lining up the above factors then do a quick check for the lagna of the Shastyamsha D-60. If the atmakaraka is found in the lagna of the D-60 that will be a great personality.
Unfortunately, pancha-maha-purusha yoga has relatively little predictive value and is not pragmatically related to fame or development of a public iconic personality. In the nativity of an average person, PMP yoga may indicate personal moral integrity perhaps but it says nothing about public roles.
|When an approximate time is available:|| |
If one knows that one was born"in the morning" or"in the evening" then that general knowledge creates a range of hours within which a search for a more accurate time becomes justifiable.
The astrologer's willingness to undertake such a search must be significantly motivated, because these rectification processes involve several iterations of checking and re-checking that are extremely time consuming.
How much time correction is sensible?
If a rectification from the birth certificate time is required, it will generally be necessary to set the birth time *earlier* than recorded.
It is likely that this pattern of needing to set earlier happens because hospitals and midwives typically record the birth at the time the baby has fully emerged from the birth canal. In fact, often enough, the baby takes its first breath well before even the shoulders are all the way out. Typically, 1-5 minutes earlier than recorded time is warranted.
Rarely, I have pushed as far as 10 minutes earlier than recorded time. I was hesitant to push as far back as 10 minutes in the one case where it seemed necessary, but later found out that the birth in that case was very difficult with one arm getting stuck backwards and medical intervention needed to avoid breaking the tiny arm. Although technically not"born" yet, the stuck baby's head was out and he was breathing on his own for several minutes before the full birth was complete.
In these cases of difficult birth conditions there are usually other circumstantial pointers. Often the mother is in a difficult Vimshottari period. Mom is ill or ambivalent about the birth, the birth process is not well coordinated between mother and child, and the child will have some uncomfortable or delaying graha in lagna/Chandra lagna to match the mother's ambivalence about their birth.
|Q: Births are very commonly advanced or postponed these days because of other considerations such as doctor's availability. In such cases, is it correct to still use the actual birth time as the basis?|| |
A: Yes, regardless of delivery or conception technology (induced labor, C-section, etc.) the moment of the baby's first breath is used to calculate the radix lagna, which is the astrological point on the eastern horizon at the moment of first breath.
In rare cases some folks claim to have recorded the moment of conception of their child (adna lagna). This can also be used, (but with caution re: accuracy).
| Q: Hello Barbara, |
I was hoping you could answer a question I had about Daylight Savings Time and how they effect planetary positions. If you have already answered this on your website, then I deeply apologize for asking again!
When viewing the birth chart, should we be taking into account Daylight Savings Time?
I'm not necessarily sure if the software I have accounts for it. Is there some sort of scientific justification for DST to be used in Vedic Astrology that allows us to still receive an accurate chart?
Or should we be looking up the date when daylight savings started and ended in our respective year of births and subtracting an hour from the time we were born?
Do you have a set practice that you follow?
Hope you are well!
| A: Namaste, |
Thanks for your question. Daylight-saving time has been the bane of astrologers for many years. An essential element of correct timing is of course adjustment for daylight-saving time according to the rules for time-reckoning in the land of birth, at the time of birth, in the place of birth.
Reputable, high quality Jyotisha software is essential for correct calculations.
For basic calculations, Jagannatha Hora s/w written by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao is excellent , accurate, and due to the extraordinary generosity of its author it is FREE for download
For more sophisticated screens and reports, Sri Jyoti Star s/w programmed by Andrew Foss is very reliable. This is professional Jyotisha software, sold commercially. I use Sri Jyoti Star and recommend it.
One good test of accurate calculations is whether the stated birth-place-time yields a sensible Shastyamsha for public figure births.
Given the stated birth time-[;ace, the D-1, D-9 and D-10 should all render a sensible narrative of the biographies of public figures, whose life events are a matter of public record.
For public figures, will the exact time of birth which produced a sensible narrative for D-1, D-9 and D-10 (plus as many other varga as one wishes to test) ALSO produce a clear narrative which matches the native's public-record life events when we read the D-60 shastyamsha?
If the birth time is accurate and the software is accurate, the answer should be 'yes'. Try this test on numerous public figures using your software as one test of validity of calculations. However, when doing this sort of testing be prepared to do quite a bit of rectification (in certain cultures, people superstitiously mis-state their birth time) or use professionally rectified birth times for public figures as your test data.
Wishing you every happiness and success in Jyotisha studies,
Sincerely, BP Lama Jyotisha
|Daylight Saving Time - Aaarrgh|| |
The bane of western astrologers, Daylight Saving Time is fickle and annoying throughout Eurasia.
For USA births in particular, it is necessary to be very knowledgeable about the various passed-then-revoked-then-passed-again state and local DST rules. A knowledgeable Jyotishi can determine when it is reasonable to rectify a birth-time by adding or removing DST.
What caused this discrepancy?
BTW in 1957, the next year, industrial interests in Chicago held sway over the farmers' lobby, and 1957 summer birth times in Chicago are recorded in DST not CST.
The pro-and-con foolishness (and all the millions spent lobbying and re-legislating it) finally came to a stop with the federal law in 1966 .
Clearly one hour of birth time can make a huge difference in the resulting astrological charts, so be on the lookout for DST as a rectification possibility.
Midwest USA examples:
Knowing the DST rules for each USA/Canadian state, province, or tribal reserve; and knowing DST rules governing"military time"at military hospitals worldwide; and being willing to try an adjustment if it seems feasible , are required tools for the western Jyotishi.
This is a huge amount of detail , and mistakes will surely be made.
For a USA birth, if a chart seems to be violating Jyotisha rules for multiple life events and for physical appearance, I will always take that small initial step of adding or removing a DST hour on the birth-time, to see if that small and reasonable adjustment makes all the pieces jump into place.
The U.S. Military says:
"Although standard time in time zones was instituted in the U.S. and Canada by the railroads in 1883, it was not established in U.S. law until the Act of March 19, 1918 , sometimes called the Standard Time Act.
The act also established daylight saving time, a contentious idea then. Daylight saving time was repealed in 1919, but standard time in time zones remained in law. Daylight time became a local matter.
It was re-established nationally early in World War II, and was continuously observed from 9 February 1942 to 30 September 1945. After the war its use varied among states and localities.
The Uniform Time Act of 1966 provided standardization in the dates of beginning and end of daylight time in the U.S. but allowed for local exemptions from its observance. The act provided that daylight time begin on the last Sunday in April And end on the last Sunday in October , with the changeover to occur at 2 a.m . local time.
During the"energy crisis " years, Congress enacted earlier starting dates for daylight time. In 1974 , daylight time began on 6 January and in 1975 it began on 23 February . After those two years the starting date reverted back to the l Ast Sunday in April .
In 1986, a law was passed that shifted the starting date of daylight time to the first Sunday in April , beginning in 1987 . The ending date of daylight time was not subject to such changes, and remained The last Sunday in October .
The Energy Policy Act of 2005 changed both the starting and ending dates. Beginning in 2007 , daylight time starts on the second Sunday in March and ends on the first Sunday in November."
"For a very readable account of the history of standard and daylight time in the U.S., see
Ian R. Bartky and Elizabeth Harrison:"Standard and Daylight-saving Time", Scientific American, May 1979 (Vol. 240, No. 5), pp. 46-53."
|AM and PM:|| |
Over the period of 30 years astrological practice, I have found that rectifying a reported birth time from AM to PM (or PM to AM) may cause the puzzle pieces to fall into place.
AM and PM times can get swapped during the verbal communication process.
Sometimes a chart does not behave correctly - timing of marriage and children violates Jyotisha rules, and the person's character does not match the lagna + Chandra lagna as calculated.
In these cases, unless the Jyotishi can see the original birth certificate, it may be warranted to try reversing AM and PM in the birth time.
AM-PM rectification may possibly even be acceptable when the birth certificate is in hand, if such a reversal yield dramatically better conformance with Jyotisha rules for major events in life. If the certificate was not issued by a modern hospital, clerical errors are more likely.
We need to know several and possibly dozens of life-facts in order to set up the rectification process.
Do it yourself?
Good software and your own knowledge of your major life events makes DIY rectification quite possible.
after age 28 with some years of professional duties, marriages, children, etc. to use as confirming data, If you need a rectification you can ery likely do it yourself by setting the navamsha 10th house correctly to match your profession and confirming the swamsha via the timing of marriage. If you don't need or want to tinker with the times until it matches your life history (and matching the life history of client is what takes the time!) then perhaps it is best to find a Jyotishi who can do a rectification.
Calculating the charts is relatively trivial but predicting the outcome is the hard part! Therefore the birth time should be established before any predictive reading can be done.
Most modern Jyotisha software has a birth-time-change tool that allows the user to move the birth time up and down via 1-minute (or less) increments; visually one can watch various lagna change on the 16 varga. Probably the most determinative choice = rashi upon the 10th navamsha. The rashi on the 10th navamsha should match the real-life career.
For example a nurse would normally have Karkata on the 10th navamsha whereas an athlete would have Mesha and a singer would have Vrishabha, an economist or philanthropist Kumbha and a politician would be Simha. Attorneys can be Kanya (arguments) or Thula (contracts). Similar rules for matching the dazamamza-10 - make sure that the lord of radix-10 gives the proper karaka results in dazamamza-10 . For example if the person is a university professor or a religious teacher, the lord of radix-10 should be featured in the dazamamza-10 -9. If the person is an at-home wife and mother, Chandra should control the lagna or 10th of the D-10 and her 4th house of the radix similarly should be favorable (to allow her to stay home).
Luckily you have a two-decade established work history. So, we are in a good position to see which patterns best match what really happened over the past 20 years.
Career, profession, the type of work one typically does in society, is often accurately indicated by The lord of the 10th navamsha .
The rectification will be successful if we can match the planetary lord of the 10th navamsha to your regular line of work.
The pattern of your adult work seems to (1) computer systems programming for management of very large databases and (2) extensive volunteer work with your religious group, which involves lots of setup for important ceremonial events.
Based on this info, it may be possible to adjudicate the correct time.
A: Four birth time options to think about:
For Kumbha lagna,
The dharma center could be considered a bhava-12 setting in that it has a sanctuary, enclosure, ashrama purpose of creating an invisible space for practice - although for most people, it is more about group gatherings and community (11).
But is Shani the lord of bhava-1 as well? That seems unlikely, unless you are in the body business (such as a fashion model or athlete or massage therapist or gym trainer or prostitute).
Domain 2 = usually some type of"values " curator or"assets " management like museum collection curator or rare recordings librarian or national trust or banker etc.
Most of the people working in bhava-2 have something to do with Banking, Collecting, Storing, Hoarding . Most financial businesses and applications = bhava-2.
bhava-11 = marketplace/community setting, making connections socially, philosophically, and electronically. bhava-11 rules networks.
bhava-9 = priesthood: university professor, temple priest, guru, master of ceremonies, teacher, sage. These folks are generally teachers or scholar-administrators. They work in higher education, travel, temples, and every aspect of public morality and religion.
bhava-3 is standard business administration in the"world of words " - every kind of office work, sales, writing, any communications media work.
Domain 8 = healing work like surgery and psychotherapy, as well as Tantra,"private investing", secret meetings and working with big pools of money or energy. bhava-8 work is veiled from public view.
Other rectification items:
If Meena were radix lagna, Budha becomes a pretty amazing literary or performing machine that would have had you in a more glittery communications career at that point. Budha being the bhukti lord when you started a career in military service, should be a in a sign of war or in bhava-6.
Budha is not in a sign of war (Mesha or Vrischika), but you also perhaps did not see too much active duty during those years. I think Budha being in bhava-6 and in Karkata (Cancer) is a good indication of a very young man joining the navy!
Year-2000 = overseas "wandering" should = a period of either ruler-of-12 or Ketu in the Vimshottari dasha. The period of wandering in foreign lands = Rahu/Shani and Shani = ruler-of-12 . That works fine.
But since Shani = ruler-of-12 for both Meena and Kumbha lagna, this fact doesn't advance our quest for the correct radix lagna : )
Running the dharma center = bhava-11 may not pay much (or anything at all!) but it does count as volunteer work; it does receive social recognition as work which has social worth. More proof that whichever graha becomes lord of 10th navamsha, that graha should rule bhava-11 in radix.
For years, you had paid work as a computer programmer. This is connections-work, making electronic systems talk to each other. And I don't know for sure, but you might be using computer work mainly as a way of meeting goals like saving money for the next dharma trip.
you are not that much ego-involved in the prestige of the work, you just do it instrumentally to meet short-term goals. this points again to a search for a lord-of-10th-navamsha which is also radix bhava-11
Your dad 's death in Rahu/Shukra only makes sense from Kumbha lagna, where Shukra is "8th-from-9th" (end-of-cycle for father) and strong in swakshetra.
You bought a house in Rahu/Shukra. Shukra needs to be in bhava-4 for that period to produce an event of buying a house.
With Meena lagna, Shukra occupies bhava-3, which would give the loss of a house.
The dharma-lord+ dharmesha-9 , should indicate your advanced dharma practice.
In Kumbha lagna, Dharma Lord = Shukra (Venus) in a kendra and swakshetra - the Venus in Taurus in bhava-4. Then a group of felicitous planets including your money-maker Guru go into the bhagya 5th radix, which puts Guru's drishti upon dharma bhava.
So even though mystical, detached and lawless Ketu occupies dharma bhava (gurus are potent but unreliable, leave their bodies, generally wander) the Guru drishti is a big plus for having the money and confidence to keep doing religious study.
If Meena were radical lagna, dharma pathi would be Kuja -4 Gemini. That Mithuna Mars/4 isn't a harmful planet per se, but this ruler would be a malefic, occupying 8th-from-dharma, and Guru would not send the dristhi to dharmasthana. Therefore, Meena in your case just does not reveal your essential dharma-doctrine empowerment.
since your wife is a religious, internationally traveled foreigner, Rahu looks right in navamsha/7
If Meena was radix lagna, the event when the dharma found you would have remained part of your social life (11) or your imaginative life (12), but it wouldn't have redefined all your values, especially your sensitivity toward the"precious " quality of certain lineages of knowledge (2).
|Q: How do we get started on the rectification process? I do have a birth certificate, but the time seems to be wrong ...|| |
A: Thanks for your note. To get started on a rectification of birth time, we'll need a list of your important life events, such as diplomas, marriages, children, illness, accidents, inheritances, adventures, -- anything that was significant or life-defining (so far in your life) for you, or for society.
Items of career and profession are also very important in identifying swamsha = the soul's portion = which is the Nakshatra rising within the Navamsha Lagna. The reason that having your career/professional info (in your life so far) is so helpful, is that the rashi on the 10th navamsha is an accurate indicator of career.
Also each pada of the rising Nakshatra has its own identity. In the navamsha, the rising pada (quarter of a Nakshatra = one quarter of 13 degrees 20 seconds). Different authors have different viewpoints on the characterizes of the pada (I have a few author comments posted on my website, and you can see how different the viewpoints are based on author culture and personality). It makes a difference whether the person is male or female, how the Nakshatra express in the nativity...
So, I might have some narrowing-down questions to ask you as the rectification proceeds. It will take several emails between us, most likely.
o get started, may I know:
Your career and professional duties thus far in life provide the best objective evidence.
Job titles are helpful, but what is more important is how you see yourself in vocational terms, in the job.
For example, I used to work as a"help desk manager" in a big science company. But I didn't see myself as a scientist or a computer techie. I saw what I did as teaching, because I was helping people learn to use their computers better (this was a long time ago, when PC's were new.)
I have Mithuna (Punarvasu Nakshatra ) in navamsha lagna, and Guru rules my 10th navamsha. So, I'm a teacher always -- but the job environment can be a university, a corporation, a high-altitude base camp, a website, a kid's playground, a big meeting ... almost anyplace.
It helps to know your job titles but even more important, how do you see your service vocation (thus far in your life). That will help if there is a rashi change within the two possible Nakshatra, My experience with BC times is that they are most commonly"late". The actual birth is often 1-10 minutes earlier, with approximately 3-5 minutes earlier than the stated time being very common indeed.
I imagine what happens is that, at least in a hospital birth, the nurses are much more concerned with having a healthy baby than they are with recording the child's first breath, and as a result the birth is recorded as "completed" when the child has fully emerged and its vital signs are approved.
All the best, BP Lama
... I was born ... at 12:59 PM .... I would like to have a Jyotisha reading by you but I also want to know the precise time of birth. I am following the above time of birth . Please let me know if there is anyway of knowing whether it is accurate. After determining its accuracy I can get a Jyotisha reading or should I do it before? Please guide me..
If the 12:59 PM time of birth, which you are currently using, is known from a certificate of birth signed by the attending physician in a hospital, it is probably correct.
If the birth time is recorded from someone's memory, a long time after the birth happened, it might be incorrect.
For the purpose of providing accurate birth times, the one person who can be the least reliable is the Mother! Mothers often do not remember the child's time correctly, and when shown a birth certificate from a hospital with a time that contradicts mom's personal memory, the Mother may be very surprised about how wrong their memory is! This odd state of affairs does makes sense given the intensity and trauma of the birth experience, when the astral (no-time) and physical planes are so intermixed.
Sometimes I find benefit in setting slightly earlier a birth-certificate recorded time, perhaps one minute or two minutes earlier, in case the navamsha lagna rashi would shift by doing so, and only in response to known facts about the native 's profession.
The rashi of the 10th navamsha is an accurate indicator of profession. If this indicator seems incorrect, e.g. if the person is a long-time schoolteacher which would be Brihaspati, but indeed Kuja has become lord of the 10th navamsha, which would suggest a military professional or an engineer, then sometimes - only sometimes - shifting the birth forward one or two minutes can cause the 10th navamsha lord to match better with the adult profession.
However, I usually don't make adjustments to the birth-certificate stated time. That is a lot of work which requires having a good amount of background data on the person in question. Local village astrologer, who knows his clients' life stories and character very personally, is in a much better position to make corrections to the recorded birth time. However, usually they don't have to make corrections, because they were present personally at the birth!
Rectifications are labor intensive and expensive. If you have a reliable birth certificate time, I would recommend to use that time without further challenge, unless (as in the example above) there is some major item that could be pushed to a better match by making a very small time adjustment.
Wishing you success in your Jyotisha studies,
Barbara Pijan Lama, Jyotisha
Q: In any large metropolis, several births are bound to occur at the same time and independently, producing essentially the same horoscope. I appreciate that these lives will have different life journeys ahead of them because of past karmic interactions.
However, if you as an astrologer, received two identical horoscopes as a result of such simultaneous but independent births taking place at the same geographical location, would your readings be identical, or is there some other intuitive or spiritual ability that will enable you to distinguish them?
A : One of the tools by which Jyotishi distinguish apparently identical nativities is the shastyamsha (D-60). The D-60 lagna changes every 15 seconds. I've looked at Jyotisha nativities for numerous sets of twins, who are typically born 1-5 minutes apart. There are always significant variations between the nativities of each twin, present in at least one of the varga.
In practice, I look first for variations in the Dwadazamamza-10 which reveal that each of the two twins have a different relationship to their parents. Then I proceed through the more delicate varga charts, looking for variation in vehicle behavior (D-16), spiritual ambition (D-20), tendency toward accident and injury (D-30) and others up to the D-60.
I understand your question, about it's being logically possible. I've never confronted two absolutely identical births, with same time to the second and exact same long+Lat.
Prima facie, I would say that Jyotisha is not a good tool in the logically possible setting of two children born at the same second, perhaps on two different floors of the same hospital.
To distinguish the nativities in this extraordinary situation, I would recommend using another tool, such as palm reading, to distinguish the paths of two humans born in extremely close time-and-space settings.
Q: Dear Barbara, I have a question regarding Navamsha. As one's chart is linked with the spouse's Navamsha, is it possible to use the spouse's Navamsha to do a birth time rectification? For example regarding my chart, the possible time error is 20 minutes, so I hesitate between two lagna lords of Navamsha, Virgo and Leo. My spouse's Navamsha has Leo rising, and rashi chart with Virgo rising and debilitated Mercury. Does it make sense to take Leo as my Navamsha lord, as Sun is also debilitated in Navamsha, or is it just to far fetched to do birth time rectification using spouse's navamsha? Thank you so much, a student
I have a question regarding Navamsha. As one's chart is linked with the spouse's Navamsha, is it possible to use the spouse's Navamsha to do a birth time rectification?
For example regarding my chart, the possible time error is 20 minutes, so I hesitate between two lagna lords of Navamsha, Virgo and Leo. My spouse's Navamsha has Leo rising, and rashi chart with Virgo rising and debilitated Mercury. Does it make sense to take Leo as my Navamsha lord, as Sun is also debilitated in Navamsha, or is it just to far fetched to do birth time rectification using spouse's navamsha?
Thank you so much, a student
A : It is a good question and an interesting one.
Rectifications are complex and many Jyotishi have their own style of analysis in the rectification process.
I personally would say that your wife's navamsha can be one piece of the puzzle, but it could not be the sole determinant. As Suryanarian Rao (grandfather of300 Important Combinations 1912-1998 Jyotishi BV Raman ) used to say to his grandson,"astrology is a science of tendencies ".
We are looking for several corroborating matches which point in the same direction. So we will need at least one other factor to feel confident in the choice between Kanya or Simha lagna in D-9.
I rely partly upon adult career to set the navamsha lagna. If the choice is between Kanya and Simha, that means the career should have distinctive attributes of either Budha (Mithuna on 10th navamsha) or Shukra (Vrishabha on 10th navamsha).
Kanya navamsha folk
Simha navamsha folk
Also check the role of radix karmesha-10 within navamsha. If Radix karmesha-10 is well-disposed within the navamsha the career goes well with respect and good satisfaction. Radix karmesha-10 should occupy a kendra of the navamsha to give best social results.
spouse's navamsha = Swamsha Marriage Roles
Regarding the relationship of the spouse's navamsha to one's own, or in general to the relationship between the nativities of married partners, here is what I usually look for to"prove" the marriage.
spouse's milestone events
Events in the spouse's life can be timed using one's own navamsha.
For example, I recently saw a woman whose husband's father died during her Shani bhukti. In her navamsha, Shani in lord of 7th (death) from 9th (father) from Guru (Guru = karaka for masculine-figure mate in the nativity of a married woman). In her case, Guru was also the yuvathipathi in navamsha. Therefore Brihaspati had gained extra power to represent the life events of her husband-figure.
Hope the above is helpful. Rectification is quite complex; try to collect as much corroborating evidence as possible; and good luck!
Barbara Pijan Lama, Jyotisha
| Q: Subject: correct lagna |
Dear Ms. Pijan Lama, I ordered a computer generated chart from you last year. It showed my lagna to be Dhanus. Many other charts have shown the same. However, the astrologers at Astroved claim my lagna is Scorpionis. They're subtracting an hour from my birth time for DST. I don't know if DST was in effect in Iowa in August, 1961. Sag seems to fit me better than Scorpionis. How can my correct lagna be determined?
I ordered a computer generated chart from you last year. It showed my lagna to be Dhanus. Many other charts have shown the same.
However, the astrologers at Astroved claim my lagna is Scorpionis. They're subtracting an hour from my birth time for DST.
I don't know if DST was in effect in Iowa in August, 1961. Sag seems to fit me better than Scorpionis.
How can my correct lagna be determined?
| A: Namaste |
Yes, Daylight Saving Time (DST) was observed in Iowa during 1961.
Below are airport weather station records from several cities in Iowa for the year 1961 - Iowa City, Des Moines, and Burlington. The record shows the start-stop dates for DST in 1961.
RE: the method by which the correct lagna is properly determined, it involves looking at the role each graha would play if lagna-1 were correct, then looking at the role each graha would play if lagna-2 were correct.
For example, the bhava of the Sun should indicate the social position-profession of the father while the bhava of the Moon should indicate the social position-profession of the mother.
Identifying the correct lagna is not an exercise in psychological typology ("Sag fits me better") but rather a comparative analysis of the two possible arrangements of the 12 bhava matched to your family relationships, profession, mate, health situation, and biographical life events as predicted by the Vimshottari Dasha.
Even if you're not ready to do a complete verification of birth time, at least you can be certain that DST did apply in Iowa in August of 1961!
Unfortunately, Jyotisha software written outside USA may not be accurate for US births before 1966. (1966 was the year that the US Congress finally legislated a standard DST system for the entire country. Before that, there were hundreds of state and county time-keeping variations and it was a huge record-keeping mess.)
If you are interested in Jyotisha, it's a good idea to invest in some *reputable* Jyotisha software which correctly calculates the arcane rules of American DST.
I recommended Shri Jyoti Star but I'm happy to say that there are several good Jyotisha software packages to suit different tastes now available in the marketplace. Narasimha Rao's excellent and accurate Jagannatha Hora s/w is completely free.
Wishing you best success in Jyotisha studies,
Sincerely, Barbara Pijan Lama, Jyotisha
|Q: Now, in five min lagna is changing and things take a complete turn. So, which one should i believe? Example : In case of chandra in 12th house that is mentioned in your research is accurate, but that is in 21.40pm case, but for some other planers 21.45pm is coming accurate. Which one to believe?|| A: I am sorry to hear that you are unable to determine your correct lagna. In fact you should not"believe" either possibility. |
You should test both possibilities against a list of the characteristics of your family members and your important life events, and see which lagna produces the correct results.
This process is called rectification, and it is quite time-consuming.
You might be able to find an astrologer who can make the rectification for you, but you can also do it yourself with a bit of patience.
Please note that Jyotisha is a system of rules; it has nothing to do with"belief" (although people often mix their religious beliefs into it!) Please test your data against the expected outcomes using both sets of rules.
Use the rules for radical-rashi-lagna #1 then use the rules for radical-rashi-lagna #2.
Only one of these rule-sets will produce the correct quantitative results for the timing of events in your life and qualitative results for the character of your family members.
The rectifier must be objective about the timing of events and about the character of their family members, and the person doing the rectification must refrain from judging oneself or applying characteristics to oneself.
Look at the timing of material events and look at other people who have roles in your life.
Do not consider what to believe"about yourself".
of course, most people are so disturbed by the compulsive need to criticize and judge themselves that most people cannot do their own rectifications... so in that case, look for a good astrologer who can help you scientifically to establish the correct lagna.
Wishing you best success in Jyotisha studies,
Sincerely, Barbara Pijan Lama, Jyotisha
| Q:. Hello, ... there is some confusion as to what my Nakshatra is. Some Calculators and sites say I am Purva Bhadra, which only 2 or 3 say that. While the majority say I am Satabhisha. My Birthday is September the 11th, 1992. I was born in Indianapolis Indiana. Thank you for reading! |
Sent from my iPhone
| A: Namaste, |
by "my nakshatra" do you mean Nakshatra of radical lagna or Nakshatra of Chandra ? Are you calculating the kundali using an accurate-to-the-minute time of birth? (ideally, from your hospital birth certificate) For both Nakshatra of radical lagna and Nakshatra of Chandra, an accurate birth time is required.
USA federal law standardized DST for all states in 1966 and Indianapolis did not change after 1966. However, Indiana births can be tricky because even after 1966 there were numerous time-zone exceptions in the NW and SW corners of the state of Indiana in counties which need to coordinate with Illinois for economic reasons. (Illinois is central time and Indiana is eastern time, except for these special counties.) Even though Indianapolis births after 1966 are not troublesome for DST calculations, the Sept-11 date that you quote is near the boundary of autumn DST time-change.
Jyotisha software calculations must be properly programmed to adjust for DST. Therefore I recommend for USA births that occur near the stop-start boundaries of DST, try to use Jyotisha software coded in the USA and not the websites hosted in India and elsewhere.
American DST rules are somewhat peculiar (OK, very peculiar) and Daylight-Saving-Time rules are sometimes not properly coded into the internationally programmed s/w . However the DST rules with all their peculiarities are usually correctly rendered in USA-coded s/w. People who live here in USA realize that while DST is annoying the rules have to be coded properly to yield correct results.
But even perfect software doesn't take all of the guesswork out of it. While state law might officially require all births to be recorded in standard time, the birth-assisting nurses might have recorded the local time showing on their wristwatch. Even with superb software (I use Shri Jyoti Star) rectification might be needed due to the vicissitudes of American DST.
If you are interested in studying Jyotisha but not yet ready to invest in professional software, I would recommend the *free-to-download* and highly accurate Jyotisha s/w coded by Pt. Narasimha Rao available at http://www.vedicastrologer.org/jh/
Best wishes for your success in Jyotisha studies,
Sincerely, BP Lama Jyotisha
Q:. To: email@example.com |
Subject: Important Lagna's
Dear Barbara! (sorry for my english mistakes, I have not learn it correctly)
Over the last two years I find out about your website. My interest for astrology is vedic zodiak since the beginning. It's amaizing,..so many Informations on your website! (like a: Jyotish-Lexikon ) Thanks for it!
I've been thinking for some time whether I should write to you. I don't want to insult your work. But I was schocked,..there are more than one or two or more false Lagnas.?? I have my Informations from Data-Bank,..or I can see it by myself....having Infos or an Interview,..or pictures from the native.(but you have so many Rashis for example,...how many are there??)
My question: Where do you get your Infos(birth-time). I know, a good working Data-Bank is astro.com.
The important point in vedic astrology is: the view and logic in sidereal Zodiak is more deeper,..more easier..it is a real"pleasure" ....to understand the relationship between the life of the native and the Rashi. So, it is a pity if you do not take the correct Lagna.
I would like to offer my help. There are natives/Rashis,...nobody around the world know the right birth-time, but many people are speculating. I know,..it sounds strange,that I'm thinking I know the truth about that. But in future (it doesn't matter, If I learn to interprate Rashis good enough or not)..this is my great employment! It's an enjoyable work. The appearance and the living conditions and events of a person are so identical to sidereal zodiak. It's unfortunately a weak and too difficult to see it for western astrologers.
PS: for example. An interesting topic for me this time was the Chart of Ramana Maharishi. David Frawley introduced it at birth: 01:15am. Data-Bank by astro.com takes the time: 01:00am. I think both times are near the truth, but so he would be Lagna Libra at the first degrees. There are informations about his life.(an easy but unusually man living in a cave) By closer interpretation it very looks like Lagna Virgio.(so it could be at the last degrees of Virgio)...but it's not my last opinion. I treat this very critical! And important is,...there will be only one right Janma-Lagna.(also when it's on 29°59'..)
I would be glad if you answer this mail. (I hope,you understand my english,..it's difficult to explain things... )
A: Namaste, |
Thank you for your sincere and friendly email. I am happy to know that you are a beginning student of Jyotisha and that you are enjoying the learning process!
My suggestion for your Jyotisha education would be this: make your own internet website and post your own Jyotisha research. An international Jyotisha community is developing on the internet. If you can accurately explain your reasoning, you can generate valuable educational discussion among those who are interested in your research. In this way you could contribute important support for the shared learning community. If your work is high quality, those who study the samaya-vidya * the scientia of calendar timing * in the context of the modern world * will thank you for your intelligent and thoughtful contributions.
Please consider that most of the birth time information on astrodatabank.com has not been rectified. It is intended to be suggestive not authoritative. The owners of the data on astrodatabank have generously provided their data collection to the public and their service is greatly appreciated. However while the recorded date and place of birth is usually accurate (and since the advent of the internet can be confirmed from public sources) the birth times have been collected from many different astrologers and the "BC in hand" claim was simply accepted from the data provided and never independently verified.
There was in particular one American tropical astrologer who provided a large number of birth times to the original data collectors for this database. She claimed to have personally obtained the official birth certificates with to-the-minute birth times for a remarkable number of politicians and celebrity figures from her era (USA 1940's to 1980's). The records submitted to the data collectors by this individual marked "BC in hand" appear to contain speculative or intuitive birth times which do not withstand rectification and indeed appear to have been imaginatively fabricated.
Unfortunately astrologers can suffer from ego disorders just like anyone else. An astrologer who claims to have enjoyed interpersonal correspondence with a large number of celebrity figures, all of whom took the time to locate, photocopy and mail their birth certificates to her – or who, according to one story, told her their accurate birth-time while riding with her in an elevator – is mentally suspect. Particularly in the era before computers, some career astrologers regularly declared "intuitive certainty" regarding celebrity nativities without too much careful validation.
In short, I would recommend to always rectify a public-figure nativity no matter which exalted astrologer claims the accuracy of their personal calculations.
To prove the accuracy of a birth time for a public figure, a rectification must be undertaken showing the Vimshotttari dasha coordination of the data points representing key life events such as fleshdeath, marriage, birth of children, earning diploma, major injury or illness, etc. The nakshatra-pada of the radical lagna and the nakshatra-pada of Chandra must be justified. Of course for private citizens the same rectification rules apply, but verifying the accuracy of the birth data is usually neither necessary nor possible. The astrologer simply accepts that the birth data-place-time data submitted by the client is accurate. I personally do a very brief data-check rectification for most private readings which involves checking the match-up of the karaka functions of the Vimshottari dasha bhukti rulers for 5-6 or so major life events such as the client's marriage dates, divorce or injury-illness, Earthbody-Exit of parents, birth of children, immigrate to new country, major shock or transformation of identity, earn diploma, buy house, etc.
Finally, let us consider the assumption that "nobody around the world know the right birth-time". A competent Jyotishi with adequate time and access to accurate historical references can in fact identify the correct birth time for anyone born at any time in history. However the rectification process is often far, far too time-consuming. A thorough and careful rectification can require an entire day of thinking and testing, even with computer software support. The native may be unable to provide a sufficient number of corroborating biographical events. Also for cultural reasons, certain forbidden events may remain undisclosed. Therefore many astrological nativities, particularly those for public figures, may be incompletely rectified.
wishing you every happiness, healing from sorrow, and success in life's endeavors,
BP Lama Jyotisha
file update: 19-Oct-2018
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The information on barbarapijan.com , including all readings and reports, is provided for educational purposes only. Wishing you every happiness and continuing success in studies!